The idea of having to go where other people tell you to seems lulzy.

When I die, there's no kitty-ing way I'm going to the Christian hell or heaven. Or the Islamic or Jewish versions.

If I'm a bad person, I'm being sent back here. If I'm good, I get to flutter away into the Ethereal Becoming and begin to live out all of my spiritual fantasies. A neverending dream.

It is within my own personal belief that whatever one believes, begets the fate they belong to. If a Christian is good, they go to good little Christian heaven. If not, bad little Christian hell. If you're Agnostic, nothing happens. So on, so forth.

I is Buddhist. A particular form of the original, to be more precise. That's all I'm gonna say.

Considering the direction of the thread, I'd like to chime in.

Let's say we all die.... Well, we all will eventually, but yeah. :l

In most Pagan eyes, those who bow to their respective gods will find themselves before him. Christians before Christ. Catholics before the Holy Trinity, so on. We believe if you abide by the laws and words of your religion true, whatever they may be, whatever good comes of it by your religion will be gifted to you.

The reason I say this, is because not all of the spectral universe was manifested by a single being. It is a conglomeration of great minds and powers. There cannot possibly be a single entity ruling over all; although there would be a great deal of liars and fakes attempting to turn a body of religious cleansing into a means of profit, a single being would snipe them from the heavens, I'm sure.

Every religion, spiritual faction, and historical period in time have one thing in common. Each has it's own way of telling the beginning of Earth, the Men than inhabit Earth, and the demise of both, should the Men become unruly. The Old Religion is somewhat fuzzy on the Apocalypse, since we're not exactly fixated on our end and look more to the silver lining below the black clouds.

Witches and Pagans in general will not see a fiery end and torment lasting eternity in a lake of fire, considering we do not give heed to such practices. But Christians who experiment with the Craft or alternative spiritual enlightenment will find themselves in said fiery lake. This is our way of looking at it. We don't say "OH SINCE YOU'RE NOT A BELIEVER/BOW TO GAEA, YOU'RE GOING TO BE REINCARNATED AS A WORM", considering the "lesser" party isn't not Pagan. Why should my religion affect someone else of a different religion?

Life is kinda like Ford. If we all get to be individual by driving the exact same car, what is the point of expression and individualism? Most people need guidance in life, some just need moral support. Others like to define their own fate, and others like to be lead to fate. We are individuals. We are Human [Or most of humanity is]. If we all fall under one banner, we lose our humanity.

Sorry can someone clear something up for me? Is this topic about discussing ones chosen religion or about discussing belief systems as a whole? I am an atheist and use science as a reasoning for my interpretation of life but would not post within a thread about religion if I have nothing to contribute.

I do however have a question for members who follow a religion, and I'm purely asking this out of curiosity to educate myself and not to make a point but if you follow a religion and believe a divine being made the world, to what extent do you follow science? I have noticed that people who follow a religion only disagree with the big bang theory and a few other topics but mainly accept most aspects of science. How far do you accept some science is fact or do you disagree with all science.


I know this might be a little hard to understand, I'm not entirely sure I asked it without being biased towards science. I've just realised that you all probably accept gravity as fact and will be quick to use it if someone asks you but then the one theory that challenges your religion becomes instantly invalid?

I only ask out of curiosity, this is my first post in the serious section and I feel I've thrown myself in the deep end but hopefully I've contributed in some form.


EDIT: Also I would like to point out that in England it's very uncommon to know anyone who attends church or is devoted to a religion. I find it interesting that still a large percentage of Americans attend church, and yet the large amount in England has decreased so heavily. I find this interesting as England and America are much a like.

I'm sorry but I can not comment on your belief as I no nothing about it and I would struggle to even debate the idea of it.

Like GrassPokemonFTW, I'm a Buddhist. According to what I've read on my GaiaOnline guild ['A Loving Kindness'] I'm considered to be, specifically, a Mahayana Buddhist.

I'm a Christian-Catholic. Most people would separate Christianity from Catholicism but in my church we count ourself as Christians as well.

There is a lot to say about my reasoning here, but I'm going to keep it short. I am a skeptic/atheist. I believe in only the physical laws and nothing supernatural. I do not believe in a life force nor the continuation of the consciousness after death.

I was raised an orthodox christian but as I grew up I became more and more convinced that the fact that not everything can be proven and sometimes you have to believe without proof is nothing more than self-delusion. No, you cannot measure God. But you can measure the effects and veracity of religious dogma. I haven't found a single sacred dogma, phenomenon, or person or whatever to date, that can prove even a single supernatural claim without a shadow of doubt.

And the more I looked, the more ridiculous it became. Everything I've sought was riddled with logical fallacies, pseudoscience, and requirement to believe more and more outrageous claims(conspiracies hiding proof etc) to explain lack of evidence, the point where logic is turned upside-down so much that anything becomes believable. Had this method of reasoning been effective at... anything, had it had any value, had it ever created anything useful or real for mankind, I would have stuck by. But it hasn't, and so I've abandoned my old beliefs.

I don't need a reason to exist, I don't find morality in following a set of beliefs just because the "big boss" said so[insert deity here], nor do I need a daddy to ensure me that everything is gonna be alright after death. Life and death on earth has never been fair, we continue to kill to survive(plants or animals) just like we have for hundreds of millions of years, I see no reason to have to reinvent reality for the sake of personalized, sweet-sounding beliefs.

I, personally, don't follow any religion. I think that religious lessons and texts are moral guidelines, and nothing more. if we get caught up interpreting them literally, we're doing nothing but hurting ourselves. Religion tells us how to better ourselves, not how to command others to live.

The thing about religious scriptures is that they're like the US Constitution. They're so flexible and can be translated in many different ways depending on the reader's interpretation. And although some people take the Bible one way, others read it another. There's no real concrete way of understanding these sorts of things.

Also, in spite of my outward brutish and womanizing appearance, I'm quite feminist and I'm repulsed by religions and cultures that degrade women and strip them of their rights. (Hi, Islam [and to a certain extent most Abrahamic monotheistic religions<but mostly Islam{QUATERNARY BRACKETS}>])

Finally, I don't think a benevolent all-powerful God would give his creations free will. If I was a God (and, I'm sure, at heart, a good majority of humans in general) I wouldn't let them think freely, lest they overthrow me. Then again, if God's all-powerful and one tries to defy him, he'd be liable to kick the guy's ass, right? Basically there's no real sign that a deity exists.

Oh and if we're all created in his image he must either A. look really ****ed up or B. screwed us out of omnipotence.

I'm atheist. I believe that there is no higher power. Also, it does not mean I hate all other religions, in fact quite the opposite. I came to this decision in my teen years, and I believe that my mind was just not made for the thought of a higher power, as I tend to think more rationally with logic and reason.

my personal opinion is that religion was based as a means to an end. ( "Meaning of Life")
The less people have to question the easier life is, but there are a lot of people (such as myself) who enjoy questioning just about everything.

One last point: I know this is a touchy subject with a lot of people, and I apologize if I come across as brash. It's just my opinion and I can sometimes come across as a jerk. My intentions are not to harass, but to inform.

No offense but the OP was horrible. Your reasons for being Baptist are backed up by nothing except your faith. Why yes they are good reasons in your book, but most people who aren't Christian wouldn't understand why you believe in God. There is no concrete evidence that the Bible exists. The only reason I can fathom that you would believe in God is if you were born into a family that was religious, or if you decided to become religious on your own.

This is exactly why I hate debates like this because the non-religious people are always going to win. There is no friggin' concrete evidence that someone should believe in God. Debates about Religion never end well anyway. They usually are closed/deleted within 15 pages of "You should believe in God!/No I shouldn't" and the like. I expect this to end in the same way. I am a very religious Christian-Catholic, and this is just my opinion on the matter.

Well, its true: usually in debate the key is evidence, and faith is often defined as something believed in spite of the non-existence thereof.

[Also my post was deleted... ]

...

Well, its interesting, she has an unbelievable point that I have come to... loathe, for lack of less Star Wars-soundy word, over time. Simply put: the number of Christians who believe in the Holy Trinity (and the finer details of the Bible) for reasons other than the family they were born into is shrinking, and at quite the pace. Moreover, I would have the hardest time trying to find a person who neither clings to religion (for fear of death, etc.) nor believes in it because they find truth in it.

The end result is the practise of Christianity seems to no longer exist for reasons I myself would consider (for whatever reason) to be pure, except for a few rare individuals (I mean, at least compared to the greater norm).

[Full Disclosure: Whatever interest I have in religion is bourne out of sociology. I am myself areligious - I have little interest today in the debate, practise, or even concept of religion, at least on a personal level.]

So you don't trust the credibility of religion, or the credibility of science... I don't know what to tell you anymore.

I think a Jeff Winger quote is pretty applicable for me, here.

"For me, religion is like Paul Rudd. I see the appeal, and I would never take it away from anybody, but I would also never stand in line for it."

@Jaredxvcz: I was just teasing... Take a chill pill. It's a debate. What did you think you were getting into? Just because I have different opinions than yours, and I didn't happen to understand what you meant does not make me an "idiotic person" or an "arrogant jerk". I have yet to call you any degrading names, yet I'm the troll? Oh yes being called an idiotic person and an arrogant jerk is trolling, no?

Just chill. If you can't take any constructive criticism, you should stay clear of the debate section. It's for debates not pointing out trolls or whatever. If you really want to call me a troll, you could just VM/PM about it and I could say sorry or whatever. You don't need to spam up a thread to say, "Obvious troll is obvious!" Calm the heck down and PM what you want to say so we can resolve this issue if you want.

Although you, Elaine, are right about the fact that proving the existence of God is hard due to the lack of materialized evidences, yet you are summarizing the whole debate as 'Science vs. Christianity'.

First of all, I believe that no matter what your religion is, if you have faith, then you believe in God. With all my respect and love to Christianity, you do not need to cancel out the importance of other religions and narrow the whole existence of faith to Christianity only. In fact, if we believe that there were religions sent before Christianity and that all Abrahamic religions and ones that were sent by God complete each other, then we can agree that religion was able to cover that 5.5 billion years of history that it is assumed not to be covered by religion.

As for Atheism, it definitely existed since the ancient times, otherwise why would God be sending religions in the first place.

But what about the cases where the women rape the men? Is it because the men wear skanky clothing? I seriously doubt it. Most people think that it's only men who rape women, but they don't seem to realize that women could rape men. It's a rare case, but sometimes it happens.

Before anything, I'd like to point out that I'm not willing to drag this debate much further than I originally intended, especially since I believe no matter how much I say, FreezeWarp (and possibly other people) will not be convinced against the majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp That's because men are pigs. It's an imperfect solution, and I would imagine restricting the actions of men rather than women might be a slightly less imperfect one. (At least, that has been the solution in the U.S.A. and Europe more recently.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp ...It's by (human) nature that men have sex with women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp What is the punishment to a women for breaking this rule (wearing fewer clothes than desired); how would that "go down"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked spirit: what would happen to a women who decided to one day not adhere to the dress requirements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp "accidents"?! Since when is rape an accident?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp Universally speaking, monogamy is not required for successful, healthy families.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp ...A women isn't allowed to feel beautiful? This is news to me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp So, how does that relate to rape? The two things are different. If a women used a crosswalk and a drunk ran her over, than she is completely innocent. Same thing with rape (usually, at least, but the rare exceptions aren't relevant).

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezeWarp Maybe the man wants their wife to look good in front of others? Maybe both spouses want their superior others to look good when around company?

This thread seems like it's on a crash-course to nowhere. If someone could please tell me how a debate about religion turned into a debate about rape, I'd be rather grateful.

I am a non practicing Catholic so I believe in God and the bible, but I don't believe in having to go to church each Sunday.

these type of subjects are usually very diverse =3

but as for me i dont believe in anything, this is my opinion so no flaming me yeah?

1- thinking that we are the only living things in the universe is just stupid, and thinking that IF there was a god he would just be on this planet is abit odd.

2-if there was a god seeing everything that goes on in this world ranging from murder,kidnapping,war etc dont you think he would have done something by now?

remember this is my opinion so respect it, more than welcome to pick holes though.

but if anything i think people are relying to much on "god" these days if you are interested i can expand on that but that does not have anything to do with this subject though =3

Even though I am quite the religious person myself, I completely respect your opinion and I believe you. There has to be something more than just us in the universe, and wouldn't there be a God for them too? And with all these bad acts going on, it's almost like he doesn't do much.
My personal opinion is that I believe God governs the whole universe, and that even though murder and all these things happen, it's just natural law. It happens in the animal kingdom everyday, and since we're just evolved mammals, it would be natural for us to behave similarly somehow.

I am an atheist because i view everything scientifically and a higher diety makes no sense to me. I also think that religions are illogical because they limit people for stupid reasons.

In a perfect world, we would'nt debate about this. People are entitled to their own opinion.

@Rape debate: Middle East =/= 'Murica. The countries are vastly different and on top of that, white men pretty much dominate the US, period. Also, the most common defense in rape cases (for those that the defendant is male) is that it was consensual. Some even say she had it coming due to clothes and whatevs. It's just flawed, badly. The US crime system is also flawed and only looks good on paper. Just because she smiles at you, does not mean she wants to go home with you. For some reason, men have a VERY hard time figuring out the difference.

About Religion: Personally, I do not practice a Religion due to the fact that I view prayers and practices as therapy. HOWEVER, I do believe there is SOME sort of being that guards/guides spirits. C'mon, if you believe ghosts are real (which they ARE) then you pretty much accept that "holy" beings also exist. Both are not explained by science, so that's not a defense.

Edit: I forgot to mention what I do believe in, lol. I view more on will more than anything. Your choices will grant me the ability to judge you (not in a mean way, lol). Bad choices, bad person. Good choices, good person. Simple, observant, fascinating.

After reading the last few pages of thread . . . I'm still wondering how the "debate" about rape popped up ._.

Anyway, in the hopes of clarifying the argument that if God was a thing, there wouldn't be murder and bank robberies and West Nile Virus and everything . . .

Okay, West Nile is a bad example because that's just nature being nature, but most religions are pretty straightforward about some God-like figure or another giving people free will. To have divine intervention stop someone from clubbing someone else over the head may save the other's live (or, at the very least, a lot of trouble for both of them) but it would also suspend the free will of the attacker. Plus, divine intervention seems to be a pretty rare thing to being with.

There do seem to be some exceptions to this in the Bible and whatnot iirc, so there's got to be more to this, but just some food for thought.

This is kind of more of a opinion question, but how does everyone feel about the word "pray"? When someone says, "I'll pray for you" do you take this as ridiculous because you think religion is ridiculous or do you view their emotions meaning you view that sentence as "I'm hoping things will get better for you" without the religious contents?

When most people say "I'll pray for [insert something here]," they mean "I'll keep that in mind and I hope said situation gets better," and maybe "if I have a good memory I'll give it a recitation at Church next Sunday." I've even known a few atheists/agnostics who say that once in a while.

Never thought about what would happen if you said that to someone who thought religion is flat-out ridiculous. If they threw a fit over it that would be kind of a jerk move, though, since the person is giving out condolences and being rejected