To me another pointless ban from Smogon yet. They banned the move Swagger to Ubers! Apparently they banned it cause of using this set-up: Prankster/Swagger/Foulplay

To me only like 2-3 pokemon can actully use this, and i hardly see them as it is. (On smogon i guess its seen alot) So to me another pointless ban.

I have a bigger problem with Focus Blast missing than with Prankster-Swagger-Foul Play so it seems kind of pointless, but I didn't vote on it so I can't say anything. It is a democratic process, believe it or not.

It's not pointless. People would bring teams entirely made up of prankster pokemon such as Klefki, Tornadus, Thundurus, Liepard, Sableye etc. Swagger would almost always go first making the battles "noncompetitive" and Smogon is a place for Competitive Battling. Yes it is true swagger/foul play sets are gimmicky and unreliable but for the sake of a healthy meta game where the battles are supposed to be as Competitive as possible, it was a smart ban.

I have a lot to say about Smogon, but I'm going to keep this brief. I think Smogon is full of themselves. They "ban whatever they can't beat," and it just leads to an endless domino effect of banning whatever move, ability, Pokémon, or item is at the top of OU if there is a significant enough amount of dislike for the strategy. I don't want to see a fan site control my own site.

I hope this ban allows you guys to see why I don't want to follow their OU guidelines for official battles here.

I think this video justifies Smogon and what they do and why I'm willing to defend them.

The only reason they did this was because of Klefki. While I do agree that Swagger + Foul Play is downright cheap, I don't think they should've banned the entire move to Ubers.

I like how they're more worried about a little key being annoying instead of the annoying bird that can have a 120 base power priority move.

Brilliant, this thread sure turned into a Validity of Smogon Thing quickly.

Once again I've never had a problem with Prankster-Swagger on any of the teams I've tried and none of my friends have complained about it so I'm not really sure where they got it from, but this looks like a good place to dump my Pro Smogon wall of text so here we go.

I really don't get the ban whatever they can't beat line. For one, it makes it sound like Smogon is a few individual people instead of one of the largest active PokéCommunities on the Internet. For another, it's simply not true. Spend five minutes on their Facebook, YouTube, or most of their other public pages and you'll see plenty of people complaining that everything from Espeon to Spore Amoongus to Eviolite Chansey is overpowered and needs to be banished to Uber. They don't make decisions unless there's a fairly clear majority one way or another, and looking at this forum post, apparently there is.



I follow Smogon because it gives structure to competitive battling. If something starts getting "overpowered," i.e. people have to plan specifically for one single Pokémon when making a team, that throws off the balance of the tier. Some are common sense (see: endless battle) and some are a little less so (this) but any day of the week I'd rather follow Smogon rules than the alternative,



VGC. Don't even get me started on VGC. The banlist is basically "whatever's good in the anime (i.e. event/mascot legends) and nothing else." You can run Double Team Ninjask or the infamous Trick Room-Spore Amoongus and nobody will even blink, and yet no Meloetta, Victini, Celebi or Shaymin-Land? Enough said.



Lastly, there's no rule saying you have to go all or nothing when you're battling with your friends if you don't want to. This is Victory Road, not Smogon's forums. You can use the tiers without Sleep Clause, or use Sleep Clause without the tiers. Now can we please not make such a big deal over this all?

welp, My sableye is now officially rendered useless... better update my TL prize list (Prankster Sableye with eggmoves of that set)

Just a question, sorta related to topic. Manaphy. Is she banned?

EDIT: It's a shame... Smogon is the bane of my existence. First with the ban of Blaziken, and my favorite Lunar based pokemon, Darkrai, and now my sableye is no longer allowed for competitive play. It doesn't matter if you protest against it. people (especially on gaia) will just not battle you at all. They worship smogon's rules, like a cult.... it's crazy.

Even if you say, forget it, I'll play by my own rules and if you don't like it, don't play me, you often find yourself playing alone, because of Smogon worshippers. That isn't to say I don't understand why they do what they do, because I do understand, but you make these rules and now you warp the experience of a simple game.... but I argued that with the gaians... they literally "shunned" (Put me in the ignore list) me because of that.

EDIT: Needless to say, that's why I'm here in VR now... XD

Manaphy is not banned, and Sableye is still a very good pokemon even without swagger.

Manaphy is still good because a +3 from Tail Glow is never wasted on anything, but the lack of perma-weather now makes it easier to slow down with status and stuff. There are still plenty of other things to run on Sableye; Thunder Wave, Substitute, Recover, Toxic, Knock Off and even Mean Look, to name a few.

Whew... ok. (I need to breed another sableye)

While I've never really had much of a problem with the Swagger + Foul Play combo, it getting banned to Ubers...well, let's just say I've seen a lot of negative publicity for it being a "pointless ban". Well, it ain't pointless. From what I have seen of the play, it emphasizes the importance of luck. And while you're never going to truly get rid of the luck aspect of Pokémon, SwagPlay is kind of pushing the limit. You know, Prankster users in general are kinda iffy. (I'm sorry Whimsicott, I still love you very much)

Now no one's saying that Smogon is the final authority on competitive battling. You're free to do whatever the heck you want and nothing but the VGC rules are gonna stop ya. Also, to those who are upset because of the "pointless" ban...don't be. Because if you really thought it was that pointless then the only reason you should be upset is if it was a key point on your team (See what I did there? Key? Klefki? Ugh, I'm a living joke). Otherwise, one who thought the ban was pointless shouldn't even be upset. If it's really that pointless, then it won't effect you or anyone else. It's that simple.

well, it isn't really the end of the world, with or without Swagger....

Ultimately, I will throw a rage for a minute, then relax afterwards.

(Really, I'm just glad I can use Manaphy again.)

Well at least its something that gets the boot than Garchomp being banned again.

Sounds like a good enough ban. Provided with enough evidence, too. I approve! Confusion is such a pain. -_-