Apparently smogon is about to do another Banning suspect ladder thing again but wait! its for Ubers? Thats right smogon is going to even ban something from Ubers this time (A place where ban stuff go) the thing there suscepting is Gengarite! So gengerite (So basically Mega Gengar) might be the first Item/Pokemon to be ban completely from Ubers. (Kinda like how a clause is)

Smogon is nuts.

I can't even take Smogon seriously anymore. They've dropped so many stupid ban hammers.

This is the reason i wanted to help with the making of our own rules here. Stuff like this from them is so dumb. Its like will get CU tier (Cant Use) <–I made that tier up.

Wait, why Mega Gengar? I know Shadow Tag is a very powerful ability.. Well, makes sense, kinda. I'd think stuff like Speed or Atk Deoxys would take it out easily. Don't play Ubers, so I dunno. I didn't have as big as a problem from it before but I dunno.

Found out after checking there post, that they might just ban Shadow Tag ability all to togther. They did mention something about banning wobbufett and the Gothirita line to, but it might be just the ability of them.

Will you calm down already there's more stuff you can do on this forum then just rant about smogon.

Shots fired hahaha

smogon wat r u doin
smogon stahp

Now i hear that Mega Mawile might be suspected next to be banned from OU. But that one might be ok, i dont know for sure.

The convenient thing about Smogon is that you don't have to listen to their "bans".

They just so happen to be the #1 competitive battle community, but that doesn't mean everything they say is law. Back when they tried to 'ban' Excadrill in 5th gen I just laughed and used him on my team(s) anyways.

Competitive battling is fun, and that should always be the inherit rule of battling against someone else. Fun. I give credit to Smogon for creating an established metagame "blueprint", but at the end of the day that is all they are. A blueprint.

Yeah but most of us still follow there rules. Like we do for our tournaments here. (Well until we get own rulings started here)

Wait, ban Aegislash? Why? With all the Sucker Punch/Foul Play running around, it's awesome getting +2 on your attacking stats! D: I've been beaten by players just using neutral attacks, since lack of recovery kills that set. The Substitute set is interesting, though. Gotta admit. I also didn't know it can be a dual screen.

I can see Mawile being banned, but I've worked around it pretty well. Sucker Punch in general since it's easy to tell what Pokemon run it.

MGengar... I dunno. I thought the Uber ban was fine. They can't still possibly be banning it for Parish Song, are they?

Well i really dont care anymore unless im going to play there ladders (which im not sure i will) but the Ruby & Sapphire remakes havnt been released yet so the Meta-game will change more when those new Mega pokemon come out. (So far the starters, Metagross & Diancie)
But a few bans of theres i actually like. Its just Banning a pokemon from Ubers is just to far i think.

I've used all of these Pokémon and taken the time to asses each one and the reason for their banning.

Mega kangaskhan was banned for obvious reasons and it deserved the ban. The ability was overpowered and the Pokémon itself is rather bulky, meaning by the time you were able to take it out, mega kanga had already obliterated half your team. Not fun.

Mega Gengar was most likely banned for shadow tag and the fact that Gengar is one of the faster Pokémon without boosts. With several ways to use a combination of priority moves, status inflictors, and strong attack and special attacks- it is definitely on the OP side.

Mega blaziken and regular blaziken with its HA were banned because of its Speed Boost ability. Blaziken was actually starting to be seen as OP in Gen V when the DW abilities were released.

I think banning stuff from Ubers is more of a symptom of having too many Pokémon and not enough tiers.

Seriously, they've been using the same tier system since at least Gen 4, which was more than 7 years and 200 Pokémon ago. Can't we have a "Sub Uber" and "Uber Uber" or something?

I guess that would work, be like a Uber BL tier. But if we had more dang pokemon in the kalos Dex, we would have more stuff the tiers.

I have to agree with Dragonite. It's the lack of thorough tier creating. I still respect Smogon because it must have take a lot of work to have even created base tiering for all Pokemon players. But, I do think it needs to be revamped.

We should have an OP tier (over-powered) for broken Pokés like mega kang and HA blaziken. That way, they can still be used, but only against other extremely OP or broken Pokémon like themselves. That seems fair.

However I do think Smogon goes a little overboard with the banning... Hopefully they do add the OP tier, because I hatched and raised a shiny 5IV speed boost Torchic and gave it the blazikenite oping to actually use it... I know, I don't normally use OP or broken Pokémon, but I LOVE mega Blaziken.

BTW, I'm surprised Gale Wings Talonflame hasn't been banned, seeing as it gets priority brave bird and roost, and how it is one of the fastest Pokémon out there. And yeah, Kalos could have used a few more Pokés...

Talonflame is SORT of broken, depending on the team you bring, though. Most well built teams with checks to flying spam and stealth rocks handle talonflame quite well. It has lost a tremendous amount of the popularity it had early on in X/Y.

I always bring a pokemon to counter T-Flame just in case i see one, otherwise if i dont i normally lose.

The thing about Talonfalme is that aside from its ability and Speed, it's actually pretty bad. Its Attack stat is actually third-lowest of all OU Pokémon that make their living on physical attack, after only Azumarill and Medicham . . . both of whom have Pure Power anyway; it doesn't seem to be able to OHKO many things that aren't weak to it without entry hazards (granted, Flying/Fire isn't a bad offensive combination, but still). Meanwhile, its 78/71/69 defenses are borderline horrible and it itself can get taken down by a number of neutral attacks.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 246-289 (68.7 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 283-334 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 312-367 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 235-277 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 190-225 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 231-273 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 168-199 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 270-320 (80.8 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 390-459 (130.8 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 422-498 (141.6 - 167.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 318-375 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yes, but my use of talonflame focuses on its speed and its gale wings ability, along with attack boosts from other moves to OHKO even the hardiest of opponents.

Talonflame's good for its priority, but let's face it; its Attack is low enough so that it can't reasonably score an unboosted OHKO, even with a Choice Band. Anything with a reasonable amount of bulk can tango with Talonflame and not get hurt too bad. Its STABs are resisted by Rock-types (particularly Tyranitar, who only fears U-turn, Diancie, and Landorus-T because of Intimidate) and which can be exploited on both Choice Band users and Swords Dance/Bulk Up sets (forcing a switch/U-turn). Hippowdon is also a threat due to its huge physical bulk, and Gliscor can be dangerous as well for its bulk, Toxic Orb healing, and Stealth Rock. Most bulky Rock or Ground-types will be carrying Stealth Rock, which spells doom for Talonflame if it's not dealt with by a Spinner or Defogger. Since Stealth Rock is so common, forcing switches out of Talonflame and dealing with their Spinner/Defogger is the best way of terminating Talonflame.

Bulky Water-types (Vaporeon, Unaware Quagsire, Rotom-W on defensive sets...) can usually handle Talonflame as well. Rotom-W particularly doesn't fear Talonflame, resisting both its STABS and being able to retalitate with a Volt Switch or Hydro Pump, and, if Rotom-W is carrying a Choice Scarf, it can pose a threat to Talonflame's Rapid Spinning partner, Excadrill. Furthermore, even the most common Defoggers, Skarmory and Mandibuzz, take super-effective damage from Volt Switch, the former being particularly vulnerable due to its lacking Special Defense. Unaware Quagsire can ignore Talonflame's stat boosts on Swords Dance/Bulk Up sets, and force an unwanted switch with Yawn to remove the stat boosts for other team members.

Heatran is also a threat, immune to Flare Blitz and resisting both Brave Bird and U-turn, but it suffers more from its matchup with Excadrill. Even another spinner, Starmie, can take out Heatran with relative ease. If trying to match up with the Spinners and Defoggers, Rotom-W is the better choice, if only for the case of Talonflame.

Sadly, with the exception of Rotom-W and Heatran, not many of these are common in the OU metagame.

But i had some battles where said pokemon gets KOd by T-Flame in one hit even at full HP, and my attacks barley scratch T-Flame.

What makes Talonflame so great is its ability to make so many pokemon nearly unviable such as Volcarona, Salamence, and any other set up sweeper that is either weak to or lacks the bulk to take priority brave bird. The only thing that kept mega Blaziken from being banned right away was talonflame.

Aegislash has been banned.

Even though banning Aegislash might cause my favorite Pokémon to be used more, I think it was a poorly-made ban.

Aegislash's ban will not affect the VRGL, you may still use it if you wish.

Aegislash got banned? Wow. It really isn't hard to counter. Christ Smogon get it together, you're banning things for dumb reasons

I wonder why there having so much problems with these pokemon this gen. I bet when Ruby/Sapphire remakes come out, they'll change there minds on these bans. But till then im ignoring these current bans they have. (I can still agree on the current megas that are banned)

Terrakion now has no counters.

Terrakion has, and will forever have the same counters it had last gen.

AND also, Deoxys-S is banned so I'm not so sure how he is relevant to the matter either.

What is really making Terrakion so deadly is that on top of being a wall breaker, the amount of choice scarf users has largely decreased, allowing Terrakion to outspeed and either KO or badly damage many Pokemon that would otherwise out speed it with a scarf. This opens up huge holes for Priority spam and other forms of Hyper Offense.

Isnt the damage different at lv50? Cause i use terrakion over wifi and it loses alot, even lifeorb attacks dont do much.

Even so, there aren't many priority moves that'll hit Terrakion hard enough besides Talonflame (lol) and Scizor being your best bet. Sucker Punch, nope. Extremespeed, nope. Even if it's typing is bad defensively, enemy priority users don't really threaten Terrakion as much and that Scizor switching in is gonna eat up a strong EQ.

Can't believe Aegislash is banned! That's crazy! You just had to know what item it had to fight around it! D:

Kakashi you were right. Mawilite is being suspected.

I draw the line with this smogon crap. Would u all agree that we consider not banning aegislash & Mawilite here on VR and ignore smogon's bans as of late? At least till Alpha Sapphire & Omega Ruby come out? Cause who knows what can counter these mons then. (Im pretty sure Mega Metagross will have aegislash back in OU anyways)

Heck i hardly see either one of these two over the wifi battles i do, even when i do i usually have no problems with them. If someone needs be Uber i would pick TalonFlame.

That's true, I forgot about Conk. That thing is a a problem on it's own though, as having a Psychic type isn't reliable with the extremely common Dark moves in movesets and priority. Faires serve better than Psychic now, too, but we haven't really gotten any strong Fairy type Pokemon. Or Poison, which I really think is underrated.

Mawile is a way bigger problem than Aegislash. Knock Off easily hinders it while hitting super effective. Sucker Punch. Or you can totally avoid hitting super effective with strong Water moves or residual damage for that Weakness Policy set. I disagree with Aegislash's ban, but not Mawile.

To be fair, I was very happy with Aegislash getting the ban hammer. King's Shield was completely NUTS and nerfed anything not using EQ. If you didn't have that, HAHAHAHAHAHA you were mostly screwed either way. Since hitting Aegislash for guaranteed OHKO relied on Aegislash being in attack position. (most OU threats would outspeed Aegislash, so there was honestly no point, and King's Shield would guarantee his defensive form again) Not a lot could stop him except for a very few select Pokemon. (Char X/Y, Diggersby, Dugtrio, Heatran, and very few competitive mons that I can really think of, but most of his counters were mainly terrible mons such as Malamar, man I wish he had better stats)

Im pretty sure the next new games will bring some new st7ff to stop these recent bans, and bring some of these back OU. Till then tho, im not following Smogon's current OU bans. (I guess i can agree with the Mega gengar ban from Ubers)

Well Mega Mawile got banned. Maybe its for best on this one, but i still find that Mega Mawile should replace Aegislash for the banning.

I don't know about that, actually. So far I've actually fought better with regular Gyarados. Bite, Dark Pulse and Payback are the only Dark STABS it picks up, currently; Bite is too weak, Dark Pulse is special and Payback relies on moving last, after its only Attack-boosting move is Dragon Dance.

You could make an argument for having Mold Breaker to deal with Rotom and the uncommon Eelektross, but I also prefer Moxie because of the amazing sweeping potential if you're able to get some hazards up and break the Sturdies and Sashes.

I hear mega Charizard-X will next on Smogon's suspect testing. But i can see why tho, its a beast.

Thundurus first, I believe.

I didnt have problems with thunderus even in 5th gen. (Actully i only have seen 1 thunderus used on wifi)

Charizard X has a pretty decent sweeping potential, but so far I've found that there are plenty of ways to stop it. More of a challenge if the user remembered to teach it Roost, but status, Stealth Rocks on the field, Roar, and the other usual rampage-blocking strategies are all applicable with Charizard. Fire/Dragon is a decent offensive typing, but defensively it leaves a lot to be desired (especially with how common Earthquake and Stone Edge are).

Tough Claws ain't bad, considering most of its common moves make contact, but other than that Its defenses (78/111/85) are mediocre at best and the base Speed (100) is the same as normal Charizard, which isn't very high on the standards of most X/Y OU attackers. So I don't see good ol' Mega X going anywhere any day soon, especially if and when ORAS bring some even bigger monsters to the table.

Then again, Smogon's been confusing even me lately, with what they do and don't ban, so I'm probably wrong.

I see them banning them banning it, then they'll regret they did ban it when the next games come out.

I still feel Charizard Y is a bigger threat than X. X requires to set up while Y can go ahead and hit whatever with a Fire move boosted with Sun and STAB. Not to mention Charizard has an ok Special movepool. X either has to sacrifice EQ for Roost or vice versa. I feel Gyarados is a bigger threat since it passes through Unaware.